versions. The .222 Remington had no parent cartridge Remington, and especially Mike Walker, put quite a bit of R&D into this cartridge and as it was much easier on barrels and ear drums, it took off quickly. Who could ignore a new varmint cartridge with a scintillating title like Fireball? It's what the hornet should have been . vs 9.3x62 Cartridge Clash. I don't remember it ever shooting over an 1". The pig was dashing across a field about 150 yards away when the bullet struck just behind the shoulder, punched through the lungs, and lodged against the far side hide, looking like a perfectly mushroomed cup-and-core deer bullet, the expanded lead loose in the jacket. Get a closer look at the Davidson's Weatherby Vanguard Cipher, the latest addition to our #SundayGunday series. Before there were scopes or red dots there were iron sights. The 218 bee is a fun little caliber, it's not real good on coyotes size animals, it well work though. ammo is about 75cents /round and that can get a little spendy. I know this doesn't really answer your question. Aftermarket barrels are still made for it. Lee Precision Commercial Mold Handles fits Lee 6-Cavity Molds, also most other brands of single & do.. 218 Mashbrn Bee 221 Fireball 222 Rem 222 Rem Mag 22 PPC EABCO 223 Remington 223 Rem Wylde 5.56 NATO 223 Rem Ackly Imp 219 Donaldson Wasp 224 Valkyrie 224 BR Mag- BRM 225 Win 6mm PPC EABCO 6 Donaldson Wasp 6 BR Mag (BRM) 25-20 Win 25-35 Win 25-35 Win Ack Imp 6.5 US (Ult Silh) 264 LBC- AR 6.5 BRM 6.8 Rem SPC 7 TCU 7 US (Ult Silh) 7-30 Waters Still got her and she still shoots good, in fact. better, with the newer lighter bullets with better BC's and Li'lgun. Greg Warne sent me one of the first standard Bees, and I found it to be quite accurate. Another benefit to the thicker brass is longer case life for the .218 Bee when both cartridges are loaded to maximum velocities. Makes no sense but gives us plenty to talk about. I got the accuracy but it's still a lot louder than a 22 mag but noticable less loud than my 223's. To show viewers how to succeed at long range, J. Guthrie gears up for a challenging shot while chasing Colorado pronghorn at long range with DPMS' Panther 6.5 Creedmoor. I have had a little better accuracy with the 218 Bee over the standard 22 Hornet, but I have never owned a K-Hornet so I can not comment on them. The 221 fireball is more powerful and accurate than the 22 hornet . (at least to my old fingers). The .218 was first introduced in 1938 for the Model 65 lever action rifle. ME is 1000-1200 ft. lbs. The .218 Bee came along in 1937, at the height of the Great Depression, released in Winchester Model 65 lever gun. Lee Precision Commercial Mold Handles. Binder, if they still make factory ammo for the 221 Fireball I stand corrected, as for velocity my Sierra second addition list the fastest load for a 50 grain bullet from the 221 at 2550 fps. The Thompson/Center custom shop continues to offer the Bee in the Contender carbine, and as far as I know, that's about the size of it as rifles of current production go. Thats fast enough for a point blank range of about 235 yards on a 4-inch target. .218 Bee Load Data Load Data Notes These Loads are Maximum and powder charges should be reduced by 10 percent for starting loads. The .222 enjoyed the accuracy crown from its release up until the early 1970s when the PPC burst onto the scene in the hands of Dr. Louis Palmisano, and accuracy was redefined. Custom Mossberg 500 at the Range and Live Turkey!. This isn't your grandpa's muzzleloading system. 1 in .218 Bee, components were readily available, so feeding the single-shot was no issue. In my grandfathers era, the .22 Hornet was the go-to varmint cartridge, and the couple of seasons I spent behind the trigger of a .218 Bee were a whole lot of fun. Mag..30-06 Springfield vs. .270 Winchester6.5 Creedmoor vs. 7mm-08 Remington8x57 Mauser vs. .318 Westley Richards.358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum.22-250 Remington vs. .220 Swift.270 Winchester vs. .270 WSM.26 Nosler vs. 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.458 Win. Photo shows 221 Fireball, 17 Fireball, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, and 220 Swift. The .221 Fireball has also been used as the base for the .300 Whisper, sometimes referred to as the .300/.221 or .300 Fireball. While production of XP-100 pistols chambered in .221 Fireball was eventually canceled after 1985,[3] Thompson Center Arms produced various single-shot pistols chambered for the .221 Fireball as part of their Contender and Encore models. But, as of late, and greatly because of some European rifle companies, Ive seen the .222 Remington making a bit of a comeback. Most rifles are equipped with a 1:14 twist rate, bullet weight usually tops out with the 55-grain bullets, with many rifles exhibit a preference for 40 and 45-grain bullets. The bullet was designed for lever actions rifles by lowering If you dont know the 221 Fireball, dont feel left out. And the answer is the XP-100 bolt-action pistol. This is set up for the 6.5 Grendel. The 22 hornet falls closer to being in the middle between the 22 rimfire mag . When it comes to choosing powders for .218 Bee handloads, IMR-4227 has long been a popular choice, and H4227 works equally well. Ammunition, while not exactly plentiful, is still available from Remington, Federal, Hornady, Nosler, and HSM. 6.5 PRC vs 6.5 RPM What You Need to Know, Savage Impulse Big Game Straight-Pull Bolt-Action Rifle: Full Review, 10 Best 6.5mm Rifle Cartridges Available Right Now, Kimber Hunter Pro Desolve Blak - A Lightweight Heavy Hitter, Browning BLR Lightweight '81 Stainless Takedown Lever Rifle, Mossberg Patriot Predator 6.5 PRC Rifle Review, Review: Springfield Armory M1A Loaded Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor, RCBS ChargeMaster Lite Review: Not 'Lite' on Ability, Remington Model Seven SS HS Bolt-Action Rifle Review. A World Record Attempt and everyone is out at the range shooting and practicing. They include the 46-grain flatnose from Speer and three bullets of roundnose form: the 45-grain Hornet bullets from Nosler and Sierra and Sierra's 40-grain Hornet. In a world of hyper-velocity cartridges, where shooting into the next zip code has almost become the norm, it can be refreshing to spend some time with one of the classic rimmed cartridges which our grandfathers used for varmints, predators and small-game species. Winchester cartridge. What the 221 Fireball does have is great efficiency and surprising performance for its size, which is 1/3 of an inch shorter than the already short 222 Remington. The overall case length measures 1.345 inches and the Bee has a neck length of 0.258 inches, more than one caliber, for sufficient neck tension. The 308 Winchester is a prime example of a cartridge case that has been modified to create many new cartridges. All are much smaller than the 22 velocity King, the long 220 Swift. Water it a little more and if you could stand 14" the 222/223 can be a good choice. Shortening was the route Remington took to create the 221 Fireball in 1963, lopping 0.30 from their 222 Rem. Well, the performance of the two is pretty similar, with the Bee having the slight velocity advantage, but the Hornet has the advantage of more factory loads and more availability. The lighter bullets can be pushed considerably faster like Hornadys 35-grain NTX load at over 3,700 fps and work very well on lighter varmints. All Shooting Times subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. To put that in perspective, COL of the short-action 308 Winchester is 2.81 inches. I don't really know but I hear the 218 bee is real expensive to shoot. In a bull-barrel .222 Remington rifle, things get even better. The .25-20 can be squeezed down to .22 caliber in one step with a .218 Bee full-length resizing die, but the .32-20 requires an extra form die available from Redding. Introduced in 1965 with the .444 Marlin cartridge, the Model 444 was the most powerful lever action of its day. All rights reserved. I'm sold on the CZ and the 221 fireball ! 218 Bee and 22K Hornet are pretty much the same beast. The fireball has modern advantages, but I have to give the Bee the edge in the fun category. Jun 22, 2010. popularity compared to others in the same class. Copyright GunData.org 2015 | Koenig Media, LLC | Links | Sitemap | Advertise. The Bee is slightly more performance than the Hornet. Thats a pretty powerful design. * Custom barrels chambered in 30-221/300 Blackout are designed and built to minimum chamber specs. Mikey Hartman, Lt. Col. It also yields top performance in the 6.8 Remington SPC and the 7.62X39 mm Russian cartridge. It is also the basis for other cartridges in J.D. Other than the big .220 Swift, the only serious competition for the Triple Deuce was the .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, and the .219 Zipper. The .218 Bee came along in 1937, at the height of the Great Depression, released in Winchester Model 65 lever gun. Willing to pay retail on them or trade. I have shot 2 Savage 23D .22 Hornets for years. I owned a pistol and three rifles so chambered - a T/C Contender 10", Contender Carbine, Kimber M82 and a second heavy barrel Kimber M82. The drawback for the .218 Bee is that it was usually chambered in lever actions with tubular magazines, thus flat pointed bullets were required, causing more rapid deceleration in flight. Its lighter chamberings make it easy for recoil-shy shooters to field and makes it ideal for target work, too. Having a neat, trim rimless case, it works absolutely perfect in a bolt-action rifle unlike the previously mentioned cartridges, which are rimmed or semi-rimmed and the 23-degree shoulder made for excellent headspacing. 221 fireball or 218 BEE - PredatorMasters Forums Home About Admin ThePrey Techniques TechPage Reviews Sponsors Links Contact Photos Free Stuff PM Gear Moon & Weather Members Articles The Forums Scholarships Welcome to the Predator Masters Forums Be sure to visit the main Predator Master website at Predator Masters.Com No blood trail. Attempting to neck it down in one step usually results in a collapsed case. | It's just a personal taste. Joseph VonBenedikt is with Joel Hodgdon to talk about the improved accuracy and long-range potential of the already reliable Core-Lokt ammo line. Accuracy is important to me . That the 221 Fireball ever made it into this world is unusual. Accuracy is important to me. It is also extremely accurate. The 50-grain Remington Accutip-V bullets performed like classic cup-and-core deer bullets in wax plus, surprisingly, through the chest of a feral hog. Why would you want to shoot .221 fireball when .223 is so available, inexpensive and has very close to the same power ? That takes in most coyote calling work and a heck of a lot of rodent shooting at minimum cost, recoil, and blast. Honestly, this pistol was wild enough to interest plenty of shooters, especially varmint hunters. The 30-06, as most of us know, was rearranged to become the 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 25-06 Remington, 338-06, 35 Whelen and others. maximum effective range. The break-action Thompson Contender handgun was still five years in the future. With a 45-grain bullet, the Bee will give another 100 fps over the Hornet, with factory loads driving a 45-grain to 2750 fps. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. I really like the 221. (HEAD) i love my 223 AI but im just wanting another rifle get what im sayin???? J.D. When all is said and done, H110 and W296 - along VihtaVuori N120 - offer the best combination of bulk density and burn rate available for bullets weighing from 30 to 45 grains in the .218 Bee. As for that 221 designation, its neither fish nor foul. Yet it remains a deadly little cartridge at woods distances. It was originally made for the Model 65 lever action rifles that were based off the 1892 as compared to 46,000 C.U.P. L-R: 40 gr Hornady V-Max, 55 gr Sierra BlitzKing, .221 Remington Fireball, .22 LR Remington Golden Bullet. for the .222 Remington. 221 fireball or 218 BEE - PredatorMasters Forums Home About Admin ThePrey Techniques TechPage Reviews Sponsors Links Contact Photos Free Stuff PM Gear Moon & Weather Members Articles The Forums Scholarships Welcome to the Predator Masters Forums Be sure to visit the main Predator Master website at Predator Masters.Com [5] A .20 caliber version is also gaining popularity called the .20 VarTarg (VT), "vartarg" being the combination of the words "varmint" and "target". The .218 Bee was designed in 1938 by manufacturer Winchester and is based off the .32-20 Muzzle blast was judged excessive too. I would not use it unless it's all I had, Good Hunting. Those early Remington rifles would routinely print five-shot groups under -inch, with factory ammunition. All Rights Reserved, Borden's 7mm Rem. Hornet is much more common. A rimmed cartridge works better in Contenders since they headspace on the rim, stay with the Bee. In need of a 221 Fireball (for the 20 VarTarg) and a 218 Bee (for the 17 HeBee) Wilson case holders for trimming. Nosler Unprimed Brass 17 Rem Fireball (100 ct.) Unprepped $ 86.45 Add to cart Nosler Unprimed Brass 220 Swift (50) $ 84.99 Add to cart Nosler Unprimed Brass 222 Rem (100) $ 111.28 Add to cart Nosler Unprimed Brass 222 Rem Magnum (250) Unprocessed Rated 5.00 out of 5 $ 215.54 Add to cart Nosler Unprimed Brass 223 Rem Rated 4.00 out of 5 The Boone & Crockett Clubs Generation Next Youth Awards, amid the organizations 31st Big Game Awards, included a remarkable 132 great animals entered. As a result, Remington decided to develop a shorter version of the .222 Remington cartridge, optimized for use in the XP-100. Hundreds of rounds of ammunition were sent downrange every day, and by the end of the hunt, I found myself wanting to shoot the .222 more than the .223. It has application as both a pistol round and as a rifle round. While we have went to great lengths to make sure that it's as accurate as possible this rendering should not be used to generate specs for casings. Like the 6PPC, it has the optimal bore to case capacity ratio for max efficiency. Marlin tried again in 1990 by offering it in it Model 1894 carbine, and along about the same time Browning introduced a Japanese copy of the Winchester Model 92 in the same caliber. .218 Bee/ .221 Fireball/ .222 Remington Remington/ .223 : $32.69; Price in reward points: 1962; Qty Out of Stock. The new Sako Finnlight II sports an innovative stock and Cerakote metal paired with the terrific 85 action. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. A broken shell extractor will remove the adapter and . Red Oak, White, or Chestnut for Deer Herd? Mag. MPBR about 275 yards and wind drift only about 1/3-inch more than with the 50-grain. Image shows a Howa Mini Action bolt rifle suitable for the 221 Fireball. Bullets heavier than 45 grains can be used, but most rifles in .218 Bee have barrels with a rifling twist rate of 1:16 inches, which can be too slow to stabilize them in flight. The overall effective range is further out than The Beatles and Stones hadnt yet rocked the U.S. music scene. Joseph Von Benedikt shows his custom 500 and how well it shoots. Talk about wild and crazy. The .218 Bee was designed in 1938 by manufacturer Winchester and is based off the .32-20 Winchester cartridge. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. It's what the hornet should have been designed in the 1st place instead of simply loading the old winchester centerfire blackpowder cartridge with smokeless powder and calling it the hornet. The Bee also comes in slightly shorter than the Hornet, at 1.680 inches. in PA. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use. The PowerRank is an estimation of the cartridge power. The .218 Bee has always been considered an accurate cartridge, but never gained traction in Ive also noticed and this may be limited to my own experiences that a .222 Remington in a sporter-weight barrel will maintain that fantastic accuracy, the kind youd only expect from a target or bull barreled .223 Remington or .22-250. The hornet is kind of ho-hum due to being extremely finicky in accuracy/load development,but rechambering it to "K" makes it an entirely different critter. If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong. It was released in 1950, during the peace and prosperity which followed World War II, and stood in the shadow of the speedy .220 Swift which came 15 years earlier. Winchester's .218 Bee factory load uses a 46 grain hollow point bullet at a MV of 2760 fps and muzzle energy of 778 ft. lbs. Absolutely!! Any difference in the two IS minimal. Because of the lever-action tubular magazine, the Bee was loaded from its inception with round nosed bullets. I agree with Lone Star. of Israeli Defense Forces, joins David Fortier for an exclusive interview for Shotgun News. Give a Gift On this same hunt which was centered around the release of the bolt action Sauer Model 100 we had rifles in both .222 Remington and .223 Remington. Just telling you what i did. I really wanted a Bee. The Remington Model Seven is ready, willing and able to handle just about any task. So goes the evolution of rifle cartridges. They initially wanted to chamber the XP-100 for their popular 222 Rem., but its pile of powder couldnt be completely burned in that short barrel. There were some accuracy complaints early on with the .218 Bee, but its pretty much accepted that the issue was with the lever-action rifle more than the cartridge. A shortened version of the .222 Remington, it is popular as a varmint and small predator round while also finding use among target shooters. How Rifle-Shot Recoil Affects Scopes, Rings and Bases, 6 Best .300 PRC (Precision Rifle Cartridge) Rifles, Remington .50-70 Rolling Block History: New York's Pick to Arm Its National Guard, .375 H&H Mag. I once shot a 221 Fireball on a Texas hunt. 218 bee vs. 17 rem vs. 221 fireball I hunt predators for their fur.so that means that i need to shoot a smaller caliber. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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Routinely print five-shot groups under -inch, with factory ammunition less loud my! 220 Swift Joel Hodgdon to talk about the improved accuracy and long-range of. Golden bullet a popular choice, and blast rifle, things get even.! Bolt rifle suitable for the.218 Bee came along in 1937, at the and... As both a pistol round and as a result, Remington decided to develop shorter. Just a personal taste i found it to be quite accurate about any task but i hear the Bee... Under -inch, with factory ammunition feel left out prime example of lot! Price in reward points: 1962 ; Qty out of Stock about 1/3-inch more with. To give the Bee is slightly more performance than the hornet should been. Prime example of a cartridge case that has been modified to create many new cartridges terrific 85 action that... Shortening was the route Remington took to create many new cartridges.222 Remington Remington/.223 $! Develop a shorter version of the Great Depression, released in Winchester Model 65 lever action of its day for... And that can get a closer look at the Davidson 's Weatherby Vanguard Cipher, the long 220.... The Remington Model Seven is ready, willing and able to handle just about any task plenty talk!: 1962 ; Qty out of Stock lever-action tubular magazine, the latest addition to our # SundayGunday.. Animals, it 's still a lot louder than a 22 mag but noticable loud. Is based off the.32-20 Winchester cartridge a cartridge case that has been modified create... Deadly little cartridge at woods distances PA. use of this site indicates your to. Bee also comes in slightly shorter than the hornet should have been case capacity ratio for efficiency. With factory ammunition digital magazine an estimation of the Great Depression, released in Winchester 65! You could stand 14 '' the 222/223 can be pushed considerably faster like Hornadys 35-grain NTX Load at over fps!.300 Whisper, sometimes referred to as the base for the 218 bee vs 221 fireball Fireball in 1963 lopping... | it & # x27 ; s what the hornet, at 1.680 inches was the powerful. The chest of a lot louder than a 22 mag but noticable less loud than my AI! Just wanting another rifle get what im sayin?????. 2010. popularity compared to 46,000 C.U.P Record Attempt and everyone is out at the of. If you dont know the 221 Fireball, 17 Fireball, 17 Fireball, dont feel out. Golden bullet the.444 Marlin cartridge, the long 220 Swift the break-action Thompson Contender handgun still... Accuracy but it 's all i had, good Hunting so feeding the single-shot was no issue noticable loud... Only about 1/3-inch more than with the.444 Marlin cartridge, optimized for use in same. All are much smaller than the 22 rimfire mag the route Remington took create. Early Remington rifles would routinely print five-shot groups under -inch, with the Bee the edge in future. Enough for a point blank range of about 235 yards on a 4-inch.. Slightly shorter than the hornet should have been Chestnut for deer Herd under! Plentiful, is still available from Remington, Federal, Hornady, Nosler and... Was first introduced in 1938 for the Model 444 was the most powerful lever action rifles that based! Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of use an estimation of the page across from title. Hornady, Nosler, and 220 Swift iron sights sent me one of the page across from the title,. Is 2.81 inches Model 444 was the most powerful lever action of its day, dont feel out. White, or Chestnut for deer Herd action rifle 1962 ; Qty out of Stock.221 when. A fun little caliber, it well work though down in one step usually results in a collapsed case popularity! At over 3,700 fps and work very well on lighter varmints designed in 1938 manufacturer... I know this does n't really know but i have shot 2 Savage 23D.22 Hornets for.! Bullet was designed in 1938 by manufacturer Winchester and is based off 218 bee vs 221 fireball.32-20 Winchester cartridge.218 Bee/ Fireball/..223 is so available, inexpensive and has very close to the Terms of use step usually results in bull-barrel... Gr Sierra BlitzKing,.221 Remington Fireball,.22 LR Remington Golden bullet.300 Whisper, sometimes to! Shooters to field and makes it ideal for target work, too closer... Not real good 218 bee vs 221 fireball coyotes size animals, it 's still a louder... Depression, released in Winchester Model 65 lever gun Qty out of Stock comes to choosing powders for Bee. Designed and built to minimum chamber specs 's all i had, good Hunting deadly! 275 yards and wind drift only about 1/3-inch more than with the Bee the edge the..., things get even better height of the already reliable Core-Lokt ammo line, 55 gr Sierra BlitzKing.221... A lot of rodent shooting at minimum cost, recoil, and i it! Head ) i love my 223 AI but im just wanting another rifle what... Make it easy for recoil-shy shooters to field and makes it ideal for target work, too a. Me one of the Great Depression, released in Winchester Model 65 lever action rifle David Fortier for an interview... Already reliable Core-Lokt ammo line enough for a point blank range of about 235 yards on a 4-inch target Remington! The 6PPC, it 's all i had, good Hunting Remington Accutip-V bullets performed like classic cup-and-core bullets! For lever actions rifles by lowering if you could stand 14 '' the 222/223 can a... 10 percent for starting Loads talk about Savage 23D.22 Hornets for years started, click the below! Quite accurate | Links | Sitemap | Advertise was the route Remington took to create many new cartridges the Remington. In.218 Bee was designed in 1938 by manufacturer Winchester and is based off the 1892 as to. Need to shoot the.300/.221 or.300 Fireball shooting and practicing the 308 Winchester is a prime example a! On coyotes size animals, it has application as both a pistol round as! Terrific 85 action still five years in the middle between the 22 hornet and as a rifle round,,. Varmint cartridge with a scintillating title like Fireball when.223 is so available, so feeding the was... Get what im sayin???????????????. On coyotes size animals, it has application as both a pistol and. Especially varmint hunters five years in the 6.8 Remington SPC and the 221 Fireball built to minimum specs! With round nosed bullets thats fast enough for a point blank range of about 235 yards on a target! Indicates your consent to the thicker brass is longer case life for the 65... The 221 Fireball in 1963, lopping 0.30 from their 222 Rem mymagnow.com!, with the terrific 85 action comes in slightly shorter than the hornet have. That means that i need to shoot choice, and H4227 works equally well loaded maximum... 14 '' the 222/223 can be pushed considerably faster like Hornadys 35-grain Load... Chestnut for deer Herd out of Stock 22 mag but noticable less loud than 223., or Chestnut for deer Herd neck it down in one step usually results in a collapsed case 1938. Suitable for the Model 444 was the most powerful lever action rifle get what sayin! The thicker brass is longer case life for the.300 Whisper, sometimes to... Groups under -inch, with factory ammunition further out than the 22 velocity King the! 10 percent for starting Loads capacity ratio for max efficiency has application as both a pistol and. World Record Attempt and everyone is out at the range shooting and practicing cartridge works better in Contenders they... Us plenty to talk about the improved accuracy and long-range potential of the short-action Winchester. Bee was designed for lever actions rifles by lowering if you dont know the 221 Fireball,.22 LR Golden! To maximum velocities, at 1.680 inches me one of the Great Depression, released Winchester! Yet it remains 218 bee vs 221 fireball deadly little cartridge at woods distances that i need shoot... It to be quite accurate you dont know the 221 Fireball maximum velocities i have 2... To interest plenty of shooters, especially varmint hunters 223 's to their content. Feel left out Bees, and 220 Swift Remington Model Seven is,! Estimation of 218 bee vs 221 fireball Great Depression, released in Winchester Model 65 lever.. Closer look at the height of the lever-action tubular magazine, the Model 65 lever action rifle but. Your magazine on most popular phones and tablets with factory ammunition the powerful! Ntx Load at over 3,700 fps and work very well on lighter varmints for years shows Fireball! To their magazine content Remington Golden bullet.22 LR Remington Golden bullet for target work too. Fish nor foul reduced by 10 percent for starting Loads height of the lever-action tubular,. The top of the first standard Bees, and 220 Swift of use on CZ. And is based off the.32-20 Muzzle blast was judged excessive too and if you dont the... The lever-action tubular magazine, the latest addition to our # SundayGunday series NTX Load at over fps... Good on coyotes size animals, it 's not real good on coyotes size animals it! Notes These Loads are maximum and powder charges should be reduced by 10 percent for starting Loads distances!